Gurdev Kaur Saini, b. 1933 in a village near Nankana Sahib, district of Shekhupura (Punjab), now in Pakistan
Transcription of interview with Mrs Gurdev Kaur Saini for the Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland’s ‘Legacy of Partition’ Project.
Could you give me an idea of your family … and what family life was like for you?
My dad was in the army and we are 5 sisters and a brother…
And your village?
It was very remote … in the plains
Which religious community do you come from?
Sikh.
The village was mainly Sikh, agricultural community.
Were your family farmers?
Yes … my granddad moved from Indian part of Punjab to Pakistan part … it was a forest of barren land and it was given to people who will cultivate it and they will get a share of it and the Government will get the other share … it was irrigated by the canals … it was very fertile land … my granddad built a very nice house, a big house …
How would you describe your family’s wealth and social standing?
I wouldn’t say we were very wealthy, but we were well off. We had plenty to eat, plenty to wear and we enjoyed life a lot ...
Would the village be completely Sikh, or were there Hindus and Muslims?
I don’t remember any Muslims … but the Hindus, there were some, a few shopkeepers, they were Hindus … mostly Sikh … many of the families had fathers who were retired army people. My granddad also went to army. He was a pensioner. And my dad went to army as well … my granddad served in the First World War and my dad served in the Second World War.
How did the different communities in the village get along?
They got along very well.
Before Partition, do you remember any instances of people not getting on well?
We were young – we didn’t bother about these things …
Growing up, would you consider yourselves to be Indians, Sikhs or Punjabis?
First we think we are Sikhs, then Punjabi, and then Indian.
What do you remember of the time leading up to Partition?
In 1945 we moved from our village to Firozpur, my father was posted at Firozpur … didn’t know much about any of these Partition things going on … in 1947 my father was transferred from there … we went to my father’s village … then to my mother’s parents … family was separated at that time … we were separated before Partition because of this study [education] because my father was
interested in educating us, even the girls, because in those times girls were not supposed to be studying in villages … parents were not bothered to send their girls to schools … but my father was interested in educating us.
What was it about your father that he made him want to have his daughters educated?
Because he was in the army he used to mix up with people. He lived in cities mostly so there people were educating their girls and he had broad view about girls, not a conservative view like other people. So when we came to this part of Punjab, Indian part of Punjab, we all studied, we all graduated … because there was facilities for girls as well to get educated, so that was a blessing in disguise for our family ... all my sisters, we are all graduates from the University of Punjab.
How usual was that?
It wasn’t usual. We were the talk of the villages … they didn’t think it was good to educate girls.
What do you remember of [Independence] day itself?
We were ignorant about these things … in the village … We didn’t hear about anything, we didn’t know about anything …
How much did you have to do with the British?
Personally, we didn’t have anything to do with the British … we were very excited whenever we saw an English person!
What happened when Partition came along?
There were rumours of riots, there were rumours that Muslims are … coming to villages to kill people, and to take away their daughters, and there were all sorts of bad news coming through people. People in one village, if something happened in village the people would run to the other villages to spread the news … so that other people are alerted … So sometimes people would hide their girls, they would take them to their farms and hide them in the sugar cane fields.
At the time we were very scared that something like that might happen to us as well.
Was it all rumour?
I didn’t know anybody that it actually happened to them, we just heard from our family people. We were not allowed to go out and about … not to the farms or anywhere, just staying home.
What did your family decide to do?
People from nearby villages started gathering in big groups … I don’t know how people decided that we can’t live here, we have to move from here to Indian part of Punjab … It took more than a month to reach there. They were all in long caravans.
How much did you pack?
We packed nothing, just things to eat. The older ladies in the house, they prepared some food, dried things, we fried some things to eat in the way … lots and lots of grains roasted, wheat, chick peas and things like that were roasted … there was a lady in the village who did this … she was doing this roasting all day and night. So they filled big sacks of these roasted things, so that if there is a need – they didn’t know anything about what is happening in the way when they leave their villages … not many clothes, not anything else …
So what did you leave behind in the house?
Everything we had, we left behind – bedding, furniture, utensils … we couldn’t carry it.
How many people were in this caravan?
Oh, thousands, hundreds of thousands. When we started moving from the villages, most people gathered in Nankana Sahib Gurdwara, a very famous place in Pakistan now, people go for a pilgrimage … we stayed in that Gurdwara for a few days … I think it was about 10 days … and then they started moving.
It was a very worrying time for the older people … we [the girls] were just enjoying ourselves … we’re helping as well … Whenever we stopped somewhere, people gathered some sticks, gathered some things from the farms around to cook. They made a small hole in the ground and put some bricks if they could find anything like that and then would make fire and cook some food. Brought some wheatflour as well …
Did anyone stay behind in the villages?
I think no one was left behind. They were all brought, even the oldest people … as well on the bullock carts. My great-grandmother was alive at that time. She was over 100 years old. She came as well to Indian part of Punjab but when we reached Firozpur, I was with different part of this caravan, but … she got ill, she had fever, very high fever, and there wasn’t any medical help so she died in Firozpur.
What was the daily routine [on the march?
With sunlight, with sunrise people would start moving. They would take a handful of this [grains], and keep eating these, and then keep moving all day long and then at night-time, when it was late evening, they would stop and spend the night there … on the bare ground.
What about the heat, the midday sun? Would people stop?
No, they wouldn’t stop. Keep moving, all the time … People would walk under the shade of the trees wherever they could find shade and they would try to rest for a few moments
Was it just Sikhs in your group?
Hindus and Sikhs as well, Hindus from neighbouring small cities …
On the march, did you encounter any trouble?
We haven’t seen any trouble, but we have heard about it ... Some places we have seen dead bodies lying along the road, in the fields … big, swollen with the rain water. We have seen bodies with our own eyes.
How did the food and water last?
It lasted quite a long way …
You said you were on the road for a month …
I don’t remember exactly how many days it was - It was more than a month .
And where did you end up?
We ended up in Firozpur and from there we took a train to Jalandhar, and from Jalandhar we walked a few miles and then we stayed a night in a village in Gurdwara … and then we started walking to our destination … it was not very far, it was about 20 miles.
Do you remember how you felt?
I don’t have anything in my head now. We tried to wipe it out of our memories ... We had sore feet, we had lice in our head, we didn’t have a bath for a long, long time. Sometimes along the side on the farms there was a distributary of irrigation so we would have a bath in that place and rinse our clothes …
How much did people help each other as they went along?
They were very helpful – it was such a time you have to be helpful to one another.
What happened towards the end of the march?
We went to a village where my mother’s family used to live … my other family … my father’s family, they were there before we came … about a month before us. That caravan was escorted by army because in our village there was a retired captain or major. He went to Delhi and he arranged some army escort. So our family was safe … and they reached the destination before us.
My dad’s family, we settled in one place. One of my dad’s sisters, they went to their village … where they came from … we settled in different villages, not far from each one. We were allotted land which Muslims left …
Was there any resentment or trouble after you had settled?
On land, there was some troubles. The people who used to live there … the farmers and the agricultural people, they were jealous of our land ... They owned little holdings, but our share was very very bigger than those people, so some of them made trouble to get that land from us.
At the time, did you have any opinions that the countries were separated?
It was a bad thing. So many people died, so many people displaced, so many people suffered, then you have to adjust according to the circumstances.
We used to have bad feelings about British because they divided the country. We were living together, Muslims and Hindus and Sikhs … some families were so close to each other they were living like families, they were friends but then people had to move and then they had to suffer this misery …
How much, would you say, people blamed the British for this happening?
People did blame, a lot … should have done better, should not have been divided into Pakistan Punjab and Indian Punjab … If there was things like that going to happen then they should have protected people … the army should have escorted people …
How did you come to Leicester?
I came to get married … to a man here … I came here in 1967 …
How do you look back on the village you left behind?
I never want to think about that – it’s gone, it’s gone … one of my sisters who lives here, she wants to go back … and see the house where we used to live. She misses it very much but I don’t bother about it.
What are your views now about how the different religions should get along?
We have been living here for the last about 30 years in Wigston. There weren’t any Indians, let alone Muslims or anyone else but now there are quite a few …
Mrs Saini looking at the Legacy of Partition exhibition at the Record Office. Photograph courtesy of the Leicester Mercury 13th March 2009.
Page Last Updated: 24 July 2009
